Mark graciously taken over hosting duties on (American) Thanksgiving! He and our good friend Sacha Black talk about author life and the many things our authors are thankful for.
Mark graciously taken over hosting duties on (American) Thanksgiving! He and our good friend Sacha Black, Sapphic Fiction Queen Supreme, talk about author life and the many things our authors are thankful for.
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Kevin Tumlinson [00:00:02]:
You just tuned into the hippest way to start and grow your indie author career. Learn the ins, the outs and all the all arounds of self publishing with the team from D2D and their industry influencing guests. You're listening to Self publishing insiders with Draft2Digital.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:00:26]:
Hello and welcome to a special American Thanksgiving version of Self Publishing Insiders Live. I'm Mark Leslie Lefebvre and I'm the only non American on the Draft2Digital team. So up here in beautiful Canada where we warmed the US up last month when we celebrated our version of Thanksgiving, Americans are celebrating Thanksgiving and we are giving thanks, authors giving a gratitude as well. But you know what? I thought it would be so lonely. So why not bring in a special surprise co host, someone I love to have a good chin wag with. Somebody I just saw recently at Author Nation just a few weeks ago in Vegas. But I'm going to bring up my very special surprise guest, the awesome, the one, the only, Sacha Block. Sacha, hello.
Sasha Black [00:01:16]:
Hi. How are you? Thank you for having me.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:01:20]:
You. Great to see you again.
Sasha Black [00:01:22]:
Yeah, I know, right? I'm so lucky to see you so many times this year.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:01:27]:
I know, it's, it's, it's so lucky. And I'm so, I'm so grateful that you were willing to join me so we could actually have a good conversation about, about the things, about all the things as well. The things that we're grateful for as authors. So for people who unfortunately, if they don't know who you are, oh my goodness, you're in for a treat. Okay, so give us a bit of a background. Who is, who is Sacha Black? Besides, you know, awesomeness.
Sasha Black [00:01:52]:
Stop. Okay, so Sacha is me. And as Sacha, I write nonfiction where I help writers, mostly on the craft side, sort of. Towards the end of the last book, I was starting to look at marketing a little bit. But mostly I look at craft of characters and I run a podcast, the Rebel Author Podcast, of which the ever lovely Mark has been a guest many, many times on there. I think you are one of the most frequently reoccurring guests. I know, right?
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:02:26]:
And you. And you rebelliously took over my podcast. It was for episode 200. You just kind of took over the whole show. And you were the guest.
Sasha Black [00:02:34]:
I did.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:02:35]:
Rebel.
Sasha Black [00:02:35]:
You were so naughty of me. And then, and then kind of. My fiction name is Ruby. So I write very spicy fantasy romance for queer people as Ruby.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:02:46]:
And that's the Ruby Roe name, right? That you write?
Sasha Black [00:02:48]:
Yeah, yeah, Ruby Roe. Yeah.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:02:50]:
So you were talking before we went live, you Were just talking about how you've done a bit of a pivot because I mean, I know you as the rebel author. Love the podcast, you've done plenty of great books. I think that your Villains book is one of my favorite books for writers that you wrote. But then when RWBY is relatively recent, just in the last year or two.
Sasha Black [00:03:12]:
Yeah. So the very first Ruby book launched in February 2023. So we're about a year and a half. We're actually coming up well. Yeah, just past the new year. It'll be two years, so. Wow, that has gone fast, actually.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:03:25]:
Wow, that is amazing. And it's something that you're enjoying, right? Your fans are loving. You've got like a whole new, you've got kind of like the two Personas online, right?
Sasha Black [00:03:35]:
Yeah. So it completely changed my life. Like I love teaching, I love writing non fiction. I, you know, very grateful that that was the start of my career because I learned so much by studying the craft and then teaching the things that I'd learned.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:03:51]:
Yeah.
Sasha Black [00:03:52]:
But I also realized that that wasn't why I'd left my day job. I left my day job because I'm a huge, huge bookworm. I'm a nerd. You know, like that is what I love doing, is writing stories. And so, so I basically took a huge financial risk because nonfiction was like the entirety of my income. Like January 2023, it made up 98.6% of my income. Non fiction did. So fiction was only 1.4% of my income.
Sasha Black [00:04:24]:
And so I did basically take a huge risk by not publishing nonfiction that year. And I'd sort of allowed everything to drop for the prior six months. And I'd written my first book as Ruby and it launched in February and it just kind of went from there. And then I, I, I, I reached a plateau, I would say by about October, November. And I thought, well, you know, okay, I'm earning more, but I'm not, you know, it's not going to pay off the mortgage. And then in December, so just after Vegas 2023, I participated in a TikTok challenge. And yeah. And so I was looking at the dates because I actually it's.
Sasha Black [00:05:07]:
So we're talking about gratitude today. And I do kind of two, well, one slash, two things. I have this. I probably shouldn't show it. I'll cover the word because it's a naughty word, but it says a swear word. Brilliant. And it's a five year diary. And every day I either write down something I'm grateful for or a Win.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:05:26]:
Oh my God.
Sasha Black [00:05:27]:
Yeah. And so I was looking at the dates and it was actually December 8, 2023 that I went viral and that was the day that changed my life. And as of July 2024, so July this year, non fiction was 1.2% of my income. So it was a complete 1818 and about 18 months.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:05:50]:
That is absolutely amazing. So I love this gratitude journal I did. I'd actually, when, when I invited you to come do this gratitude, I had no idea you had this journal. That is so cool.
Sasha Black [00:06:00]:
So I am a huge, huge lover of gratitude and I ask my son every dinner, every, every night at dinner what he's grateful for, what he's proud of and what he's excited for for the next day. So I really love that that is the topic of today because I'm hu. I love gratitude. I'm. I, I try and live, live grateful for everything all the time.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:06:24]:
So yeah, that is amazing. And we had. So I put out a form a few days ago just asking authors to share what they were grateful for. So we have a bunch of pre, pre pop ups that I put in together. But, but I want to share some comments because Beth Cox says had to pop into here two of my favorite podcasters together before the turkey show starts. Thanks Beth. We also had. Beth also says, sasha, you simply skyrocketed with Ruby Roe.
Sasha Black [00:06:57]:
I did. It's wild. I'm still kind of reeling from the like the whiplash of it.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:07:04]:
Well, that is fantastic. And Guillaume says, hi Sacha. I'm in the UK too, and I write spicy stories too.
Sasha Black [00:07:13]:
I love it.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:07:15]:
And I have to say this, I am so grateful for the folks who watch SBI live and comment and interact. It feels like a family. Love you guys. Thank you guys so much for your comments and for being there. Oh, and of course Tina just popped up. See. So share your gratitude in the comments as well. Tina Holland says, I'm thankful to have met Mark at Author Nation.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:07:38]:
Tina, thank you. I am grateful that we had a chance to meet as well. That is awesome. And again, Beth says great questions to ponder over every dinner. So. Oh, and again I'm going to bring up another one from Tina. Also grateful for this wonderful community. And I will say this on behalf of the Draft two digital team.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:07:59]:
We are so grateful for the author community. So grateful not just for the community. And we get to hang out and chat with great people like Sacha and bring you weekly the lives and stuff like that, but we get to interact with authors all the time on a day to day basis as you go to work and publish your books. And it is. I was just talking about this on my own social media this morning that I'm just so lucky. I'm so grateful. I get to do what I get to do. I get to write and I get to work with authors.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:08:25]:
I mean, come on. Two of the. Two of the coolest things in the world.
Sasha Black [00:08:29]:
Yeah. I honestly feel grateful every single day for this opportunity. And even when I wasn't writing full time, I still tried to be really grateful for the journey that I was on. Because, you know, we never know. We never know if we're going to make it. So you have to live grateful for the chances and the time that you get to write, I think.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:08:50]:
Yeah, yeah. No, that is fantastic. And I'm going to bring up some. Actually, between the ones we bring up from the folks who submitted, pre. Submitted their gratitude, I thought you and I could continue to share some of the things we're grateful for. But I have a video clip because it being American Thanksgiving, I am so, so grateful for the writers and the artists who've inspired me just as a person, who've made me laugh, who've made me think, who made me cry, who've made me feel things, which is what storytellers do. And I want to share a clip from one of my absolute all time favorite Thanksgiving movies ever because I can't really think of that many Thanksgiving movies. So we'll just pop this up if I can find it.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:09:36]:
Here it is. I know you, don't I? I'm usually very good with names, but I'll be damned if I haven't forgotten yours. You stole my cab. I've never stolen anything in my life. I hailed a cab on Park Avenue this afternoon and before I could get in it, you stole it. You're the guy who tried to get my cab. I knew I knew you. Yeah.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:10:03]:
You scared the bejesus out of me. Come to think of it, it was awful easy to get a cab during rush hour. Forget it. I. I can't forget it. I am sorry. I had no idea that was your cab. Let me make it up to you somehow, huh? Please? How about a nice hot dog and a beer? No, thanks.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:10:31]:
Just a hot dog then. I'm kind of picky about what I eat. Some coffee? No. Milk? No. Soda? No.
Sasha Black [00:10:38]:
Some tea?
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:10:39]:
No. Lifesavers? No. Slurpee? Sir, please, just let me know. I'm here. I knew I knew you. I knew I knew you. Sorry, love. I love that.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:10:56]:
I love that movie so much. John. Candy, fellow Canadian actor and John Hughes, who is the writer. Are you familiar with that script? Because I mean in the UK you don't really celebrate Thanksgiving, right?
Sasha Black [00:11:07]:
No, I, I am only aware of it because of you, because of my insanity.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:11:13]:
And I'm grateful not just for these two amazing creative geniuses. And this is a movie I watch every single Thanksgiving and Christmas. Because, you know, why not? It is a movie that makes me laugh, it's a movie that makes me cry. But I spotted the book that John Candy was holding and I released it as a trivia book a couple years ago. And I honestly thought about 35 other people in the entire world were nerdy enough. Like me who saw the book, went oh cool, that's neat and would get excited about it. And it, it is in terms of my self published titles, it is the best selling, one of my best. Yeah, I know, I know that I was not thinking about anything other than passion and writing something that truly resonates in my heart.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:12:01]:
And I'm so thankful that there's more than 35 other people out there like me.
Sasha Black [00:12:06]:
I, I genuinely feel like the moment that we choose ourselves and truly dig into the thing that is most us, that is when we see success with our indie titles. Honestly, I really, I see it time and time and time again. Like we have to kind of unshed these, you know, expectations that other people place on us. And then when we actually dig into. This is just, this is just for me, this is just this thing that I need to do this fun project or whatever that is when we always see success. I hear it so many times.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:12:41]:
Is that, I mean, is that part of what you think with Ruby? Because it was Ruby writing this in your heart. And look at that, look at that.
Sasha Black [00:12:49]:
Yeah, that's exactly what happened. Basically. I hadn't ever really read queer fiction and I read, I think it was the middle of 2022, I read a spicy sapphic book and it was like, I just, I was so emotional during this book and I was like, oh my goodness me, is this what other people. Is this what other people read? Like, is this their reading experience? And it was, you know, the first time that I'd kind of seen me in it. And then I was like, hold on a second, why am I writing straight romance when I'm a queer woman? And yeah, it was just this unshedding of like expectations and judgments and you know, and then I just, and that's why I wrote in secret. I wrote the very first Ruby book in secret and didn't Tell anybody what I was doing? No. And it's because it was just for me. And it was only when I'd finished that I was like, actually, I don't mind sharing this now because it's done.
Sasha Black [00:13:37]:
I can't undo it. I've already written the thing that I wasn't supposed to write, you know, so, yeah, 100. That's. I believe that that's what happens.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:13:46]:
Oh, I love that. Yeah, I love that. Because life is so short. Why not do. My kid, for example, was taking something in college and into second year, said, dad, I am not liking this anymore. And I said, you're 19. Don't go and spend your whole life doing something you don't like. I am one of the luckiest people in the world.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:14:08]:
I get. I love every single day. Yeah. It's not. The days aren't easy. There's. There's hard work and there's lots of stuff that comes up that's not fun. But, oh, my God, I'm so lucky that I get to love the things that I've done.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:14:19]:
And that's been most of my adult life. So it's kind of like I'm like, no, no, do what you want. Drop out of this program and take something else. And. And now. And now they're just absolutely resonating with, you know, with the computer programming, with. With that program. And I was like.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:14:36]:
And yay. Unlike what I did, English language and literature, unlike what I did, it's practical.
Sasha Black [00:14:42]:
Yeah, there's quite a clear trajectory there.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:14:44]:
Yeah. So. All right. Some. Some. Some more comments, actually. Yeah, I'll read a couple comments and then I want to get into something. A recent question.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:14:53]:
Gratitude from Sacha to share. So, okay, so this one here related to just what we talked about. Beth asks Mark, how many times do you watch a movie to write a trivia book? Oh, I actually lose count, Beth. I usually only have picked books that are movies that I've already watched 50, 60, 70 times. Usually books I've watched at least once or twice or three times a year. And again, there's something about that. There's. That it's like comfort food, you know, when you need to just watch something that you know intimately, but with.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:15:22]:
I just finished working on National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, which is coming out in December. And it's not just watching the movie, because I will watch it. Like I watched it once with Liz recently, just as sort of a. Just to refresh and look for missing things I might have missed in the book. But then I'll go and watch it and pause and rewind and watch the scene again. Because I'm looking for bloopers and I'm looking for the little nuances or I'm looking for like any little things because I sometimes will put the timecode for other nerds like me who want to find it. So it's like, yeah, so recently, let's say in November as I was finalizing the work on the book, I may have watched the hour and a half movie or hour and 45 minute movie. I may have spent about eight hours watching it.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:16:07]:
But just watching like the same little clip and looking for this little thing so it gets obsessive. Okay, a few other things. So Beth also says, I'm grateful we have the technology today to hear such inspiring stories. Guillaume says, I'm grateful for D2D because they have a wide variety of platforms, including some of the best buildings in the world. Libraries and Sacha, as a library, as an author, are your books available in the libraries in the UK and do you take advantage of public landing rights?
Sasha Black [00:16:49]:
So I do, I do get PLR payments and they do increase year on year. What I will say is that it's not as easy to get into libraries in the UK because you can like go into your library and try and talk to the head of the library and they just won't take your books. So even if you donate, they, they're just not interested. So you have to. I don't know, it's a bit of an odd way around I must be in libraries because I get PLR payments. But yeah, but it's beyond me how it happens. I am, I do use DTD though.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:17:22]:
So they're getting like the ebooks are getting there. So another comment is. So Tina says this is related to what you were talking about before. As far as resonating, it's good recommendation to write what you want.
Sasha Black [00:17:39]:
Oh so I have so many opinions on that. I will caveat what I said because, and this is, this is very difficult to say for people to hear, but I do believe that there's a bit of a Venn diagram if you, if you want to write for your passion and you're not worried about sales, then you can absolutely just do that. If you want to sell your stories, then your stories are no longer about you. They are about the customer and the reader. Because in order to sell you have to deliver something that they want. That said, I do truly believe that you can find like if you have the circle of what readers want, the circle of what you want There is a Venn diagram and that crossover, that's where you should be writing. And that's what I try and do.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:18:31]:
That's the magic. Were we separated at birth? Because I, I use Venn diagrams all the time when I talk about my target audience, about the things they love and where they intersect and stuff. Now, another one thing, the one caveat I will say, because I've worked in the industry for long enough to know that most books don't sell. Therefore, the only guarantee of happiness is being happy doing the thing you love. And then if you sell books, that's gravy or whatever sauce you prefer to add. See, it's turkey and stuff that's going on in America today. So I figured gravy and cranberry, you're.
Sasha Black [00:19:10]:
Just stuffing those catchphrases in on you. I brought my best dad joke for you.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:19:17]:
My God, you're such a turkey.
Sasha Black [00:19:21]:
Oh, I'm so full of all of these jokes.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:19:24]:
Oh, yes, full. Oh, dear.
Sasha Black [00:19:27]:
We need to stop.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:19:27]:
Thank you. Thank you. I forgot we shared dad jokes.
Sasha Black [00:19:30]:
We do share dad jokes. I'm not as good as you, though. I'm not as good as you. I, I, I have to it take. That's why it took me a second to like intellect. I could get it out.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:19:41]:
Still love it. Back to seriousness, this comment from Beth, and I think this is such an important thing. Beth says, seeing yourself in fiction is so important. It's why I include women with disabilities and illnesses in my books.
Sasha Black [00:19:53]:
Yeah. Oh, completely agree. And I'm very grateful that there are brave people out there, you know, including such diverse characters that we can go and read and learn and, you know, not just have a whitewashed fiction library. You know, I'm very grateful for those stories. I actually actively try to read stories from diverse authors. So. Yeah, I completely agree.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:20:21]:
No, same here. I try to make a point of actually looking to see who the author is, where they're from, and particularly if their, their own experience in their perspective is not similar to my own, because that's how I'm going to learn and grow as a, as a writer. So. Beth says, speaking of libraries, Sacha looks like she's sitting in a colorful library. I do love the color. Is there any, Is that a scheme? Did you just do them by color?
Sasha Black [00:20:48]:
So I'm not very good at remembering book titles or author names, but I'm very, very visual, so I always remember what's on the COVID So this is actually how I find my books. So I'll be like, oh, you know, it's the book with the pink spine and the number on it and the title. And it's a gray cover. And that's the book four by Ellie Keel, which is just here. So yeah, like, I don't know how I do that. It's so much. So my Patreon community, we played a game once and they had snapped a picture of my background and like zoomed in and looked at all the titles and I think they tested me on like 10 titles or something. I only got one wrong.
Sasha Black [00:21:26]:
I only got one wrong. I could tell them what was on every single cover. Having a shelf.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:21:32]:
Having been a bookseller, this is a story booksellers will share. Somebody will come in and say, you heard this on BBC radio or here in Canada, CBC or NPR in the U.S. see, I can speak all the languages. They heard this book and the author was on this morning on this whatever show. And it's blue. That's a blue spine. I'm like, Sacha would get that one because I would go, blue spine. Could you tell me what the author talked about? Like.
Sasha Black [00:21:58]:
Yeah, I would. Honestly, it's so weird. I can't. Like somebody actually took the mick out of me and was like, oh, that, you know, what are you going to do? Just find the red one with a skull on it? And I was like, yeah. And that promptly made them be quiet.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:22:13]:
We do a Christmas tree every year out of books. Liz builds a gorgeous like 7 foot tall tree of books in our living room. That's the only Christmas tree that we put up. And somebody had commented because she does them by spine width, right? Like all the layers are all the same. So she gets all the books and then measures them and then puts, puts them all out in layers. And then somebody had commented because the Stephen King's insomnia is white and orange and it's a giant, like it's a phone book sized book. And it just stands out because it's that colored spine as well.
Sasha Black [00:22:48]:
I love it.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:22:50]:
Awesome. Awesome. All right, so let's bring up some of those pre. Grateful, pre gratitudes, the Thanksgiving gratitudes from some of the authors. I have to go find where I loaded them. Let's pop them up. If only I could find things. Okay, so this is the first one and then we can kind of let our comments on that.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:23:08]:
So this is from Russell Phillips who says I write military history nonfiction and I'm grateful for the connections I've made. Occasionally I get emails from relatives or people who were involved in the things I write about. They are frequently fascinating and always Illuminating. Enhancing my. And of course, I must have cut that off in the. In the visual. So I'm going to go. Enhancing my.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:23:32]:
And I have to go find. Just bear with me. Enhancing my. I have to go back to the forms. Shame on me for doing that. I should have double checked that. Enhancing my understanding of the subject. Good thing I had that screen open still.
Sasha Black [00:23:50]:
I love that though. That's so lovely that, you know, people can help to influence and build. Yeah. Because, you know, what book is really written in isolation? None, really.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:23:59]:
Yeah, yeah, it is. And it is. I mean, really, you talked about this as well. And I think this is the same as Russell was talking about the books. Connecting with people, people. He learns more from the readers after hearing from them. And then obviously they maybe don't feel so alone because somebody else gets it. Somebody else has put the things that they were feeling into words.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:24:23]:
Were you there at Author Nation when Kevin Smith was talking about his father and going to the movies? Yeah, I know, UK time. So that was late in the evening.
Sasha Black [00:24:33]:
Yeah, I left. No, I don't. I think I'd flown home at that point.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:24:36]:
Oh, you're already on your way home?
Sasha Black [00:24:38]:
Yeah.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:24:39]:
He talked about his father was one of the stoic, sort of stiff upper lip kind of fathers who never really showed emotion or whatever and used to take him to movies because that's what they would share. And he remembers seeing his dad crying during a movie and it was one of only two times in his life. And he said he wanted to be a writer because there are people like his father who have all the same feelings that we can express easily, more easily as writers. But the writing and the story and the movies and all the things that we do, the music and all the art that creative people create helps bring that out in people because they may not have the words for the feelings they have. And I was like, oh my God, I love that. I love that so much.
Sasha Black [00:25:24]:
Oh, yeah, that is amazing. There's a bit of an in joke with my readers now that I'm actually nourished by their tears. And like, it's true. Like, if I don't get people crying, then I feel like I've done not done my job. And they call me like the Tear vampire and stuff because I just. I love. Like they'll send me pictures of them crying and I'm like, yeah, but.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:25:50]:
But there's something cathartic. I know I was talking about planes, trains and automobiles. I've seen the movie 100 times. I laugh at the same things. I've laughed at 100 times. And it's not a surprise. It's not the surprise humor. Oh, I wasn't expecting that.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:26:02]:
And I cry at the same spots too. There's a couple spots in the movie. 3. Three times in the movie, I find tears in my face because there's just the humanity of it all and just the connection between two people who shouldn't get along, like, all of those things. And that as a storyteller, when you get those tears from your readers, you're like, yes, I reached you.
Sasha Black [00:26:24]:
Yeah. Exactly how powerful that we can evoke that in somebody else. And. Yeah. I don't know. Stories are a kind of magic. I swear that they are our world's actual form of magic, because not only can we make people feel, we can create images in their brains as well. Like, you know, and.
Sasha Black [00:26:43]:
And they're never the same image in two people's different, you know, different minds. They see the character slightly differently. Or I just. Yeah, stories are magic as far as I'm concerned.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:26:52]:
Love that. And then, of course, Beth says, sasha, you give me a cool bottle to catch those.
Sasha Black [00:26:56]:
I need, like, a whiskey flask.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:26:58]:
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Sasha Black [00:26:59]:
Just walk around trying to capture all the readers.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:27:01]:
And then, of course, some of your patrons would want to buy those tears.
Sasha Black [00:27:07]:
No, I need them. I need them to feel the next book.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:27:10]:
Awesome. And then Beth also says, booktree. Awesome. Do you take it down by reading the books? No, no. But it is a great way to get the bookshelves dusted. Once a year, we take them. Take them off the shelves. Although here's the thing that does happen.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:27:23]:
Liz will take the books. She can't touch my signed copies, which are here, so those don't go on the tree. But she touches the ones in other rooms in the house. And what is always the case, I see a book that. Because I buy books, and then I don't read them for 10 years, and I see a book, I'm like, oh, I want to read that. And I suddenly want to read it now that it's at the bottom of the tree, and I'm gonna Jenga and pull the whole thing down.
Sasha Black [00:27:45]:
Yep, yep. Definitely, Definitely. Like, when I go to Unhaul, and then I'm like, no, I need to read that one.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:27:51]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, let's. Let's share. Let's share the next one. This one comes from Elizabeth Andre. This is a Thanksgiving from authors. So Elizabeth says, After 10 years of writing and self publishing, I am more creative than ever. My writing is stronger.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:28:07]:
I'M able to make money off a genre that I love, but that many people think is unprofitable. That's okay. I'll take care of it.
Sasha Black [00:28:15]:
Oh, I'd love to know what the genre was.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:28:17]:
Yeah, I was hoping that we'd get more. Elizabeth, if you are watching live, do comment and let us know the genre. But I love that it's kind of like, no, I'm writing a genre I love. And apparently the Venn diagram there works because there's readers. She loves writing it. And that is again, that's another kind of magic too. Right? All righty, let's pop up Eve. So Eve says, I am grateful for the respite that writing provides on the weekends with two tiny kids, it's easy to get exhausted and cranky.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:28:53]:
And making time to write always helps me recharge. So you're familiar with this little person in the house, right? That can actually be a lot, right?
Sasha Black [00:29:04]:
Yeah, yeah. I used to write in any spare second I possibly could. So I would like write on my phone. I'd write a sentence whilst I was in the coffee queue or sat waiting for a meeting to start when I still had my day job, I'd literally like. And by the end of the day, you know, sometimes I'd have a whole like 500 words because there were three minutes here and four minutes there and two minutes there. And you know, you're that narrow. Yeah. But I tell you, making snatching that time was hard.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:29:33]:
I. I used to. I started getting up early. Well, I had to go and commute into work and I would write on the go train before Internet was available when you were commuting. So it was perfect because I wasn't online. I was actually able to just focus on my words. And then I just started getting up early or staying up late when everyone else in the house was asleep because I am so easily distracted by other people and I need to be in solitude.
Sasha Black [00:30:00]:
Have you ever done your Clifton strengths recently?
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:30:03]:
Yeah.
Sasha Black [00:30:05]:
What are they? Because I wonder what your people strengths are because that's what maybe why I get distracted.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:30:11]:
I'm high empathy, so I tend to be in tune with what's going around me and that's. That can be detrimental to my focus.
Sasha Black [00:30:21]:
What's your number one strength? Ah, you can tell me after if you want.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:30:26]:
Yeah, dad jokes. No, that's not beer. No, that's a different one. Okay. All right, let's. Let's go. While comments are flying in, I'm just trying to keep. Just trying to keep up.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:30:41]:
Ready? So oh, this is from Margaret, who says hello. Very excited and grateful for Small Business Saturday this weekend. Small Business Saturday is this. Oh yeah, I guess it's after. So Black Friday in the U.S. massive shopping day. And then Small Business Saturday is obviously where you want to go and make sure you're supporting local businesses that actually really charge a community up. So that's fantastic.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:31:10]:
I love that. And let's see what else I'm trying to get caught up with. Oh, and Guillaume says. Okay, so this was an answer to our question. Elizabeth Andre writes lesbian romance.
Sasha Black [00:31:24]:
Oh my God.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:31:25]:
I know this. I know this. I know Elizabeth. I know who the authors are who write Elizabeth. Stupid me.
Sasha Black [00:31:31]:
I'm gonna have to go and look them up. And I get what they, I, I get what they mean about, you know, people thinking that it doesn't sell. Because that was, you know, I was told by four separate people not to write what I was going to write.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:31:43]:
Because they were like, yeah, they are a couple who write under Elizabeth Andre. And I actually interviewed them and of course I, again, I, I sometimes call a blank. Of course I knew that I recognized the name, but I didn't make the placement. I met them in Vegas probably I think three years ago, maybe. No, four years ago. And they do some really amazing things with their newsletter and stuff. All kinds of cool stuff. So, yeah, duh.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:32:07]:
Thank you, Guillaume, for reminding me. See, regular Guillaume who watches these and participates every week, remembers way better than I do. So. All right, let's go to the next one is from Lizbeth Lisbeth shared. I am grateful for the supportive community of writers and readers that I've met over the last several years.
Sasha Black [00:32:30]:
Supportive communities, I think.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:32:32]:
Yeah, I just love that we kind of have each other's backs. We, we, well, we get each other right. We understand the, the madness that we possess as writers and creatives.
Sasha Black [00:32:42]:
Do you know what it is? I think it's found family. I think our community represents found family. Because as kids a lot of writers were slightly unusual. We had quirks. We were interested in things that weren't necessarily seen as cool. So we were often on the outside. But then as adults, we have adult money that we can spend on adult things, except we're still spending them on the things that our 13 year old selves liked. And now we find each other and we're able to share.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:33:11]:
Oh my God. Yeah. No, it's so true. Yeah, you found your people finally. And I did. I grew up in a small mid northern Ontario town. Not redneck ish, but close enough to redneck ish. And I was just a little bit more in touch with my anima.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:33:25]:
I was a little bit softer as a person and not the. The generic. I know I look kind of like a tough guy, but I'm not really at all. It's just an exterior look and I didn't fit in, you know, I didn't. I didn't hunt. I wasn't really into sports and stuff. I'd rather just read a book and go enjoy nature and do the weird things. So, yeah, finally when I.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:33:49]:
I met other, I did nobody else I knew. Although there are two other people from my. From my grade 13 class. So it's only 33 of us, two others that I know who've actually written books and published books, which is absolutely amazing. But in high school, I didn't even know that there were other people who wanted to write. I mean, I had one friend, but yeah, so I was the outcast. I was the weirdo. So.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:34:12]:
All right, let's pop up. This one from William. William Brinkman says, I'm grateful to live in a time when self publishing is accessible to the public. I doubt my first novel would have been published by one of the big five publishers. I'm also thankful to Draft2Digital for distributing my books to other retailers. So I'm not dependent on the whims of Amazon. So, yeah, self publishing is actually accessible. We, Sacha, we have opportunities that our forebearers, the previous writers who came before us, they didn't have those options.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:34:45]:
Options, right.
Sasha Black [00:34:46]:
There's even more. I mean, you've been around longer than I have, even in self publishing, I think. But I, I joined in. I think. Well, I was in the community in 2014, but I didn't publish until 2017. And even since 2017, there's so many more opportunities now than there were. Like, it's incredible what I, I am. I know lots of people are, you know, worried or scared and.
Sasha Black [00:35:10]:
But I, I am more excited than I have ever been because of the level of opportunities. Like technology and software are giving us so many variables and, you know, there's almost a. I'm seeing like a fracturing in the community and there are so many more business models now, which I think is fantastic because there is a business model to suit everybody's needs and that is exciting to me.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:35:38]:
No, I agree with you. Now. I. I started in writing. I mean, 40 years ago was when I got my very first rejection from CBC Radio for a literary contest where I sent them a horror story. Probably not a good Idea. But my very first self published book was in 2004, 20 years ago, my very first self published book. So I mean this was back in the day when you had to mail manuscripts away and wait for your direction, all that stuff.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:36:02]:
So this self published book was print on demand only there was no ingramspark. So I had an account with a sort of a back end of IngramSpark Ingram Lightning source that actually powers the print on demand. And you had to really know how to format books back then. But having worked in the book industry, I did it and then I mean my very first ebook didn't come out. I think I made, I might have manually hand coded the ePub. You know back in the day when us writers had to walk up to school and you know, 10ft of snow, bare feet, uphill, both ways, that kind of stuff. And, and it was Amazon and Smashwords were the only two options, right. I had Amazon KDP and they were only giving 35% by the way.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:36:42]:
They didn't start giving 70% until Apple started doing that a year or two later. And that's all I had. And now audiobooks and you know you can have large print, I mean thanks to tools like Vellum as well, you can easily make a large print book. And, And I know Draft2Digital will be adding that in 2025 with the templates and stuff. So technology just keeps building for us.
Sasha Black [00:37:05]:
And, and, and even going on beyond that. I know this isn't relevant for everybody but we are even getting access to opportunities that were previously restricted to traditional publishers. For example like obviously you know, the more bespoke books, the special editions that we're able to do. But for me I now look at, looking at print runs which like as an indie author that's not something that you know, I ever thought I would be doing but actually it doesn't make any, any sense for me anymore to be running print on demand because the margins are so different. So yeah, like it's even and, but we even have the ability to make those networks and connections with, with companies that do longer print runs and, and have. It's just, it's so exciting.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:37:49]:
Yeah, yeah, no, I love that, I love that. And then even one of the things I think did you Johnny be Turned did a talk on artisan books and the resurgence of that and we're now seeing particularly with, instead of the rush to market and rapid releases and stuff like that, we're now looking at those. Our mutual friend Joanna Penn has done these gorgeous, gorgeous books with book vaults and you know, I've got the nice signed copies over there, all the shinies, all the shiny things and it's kind of like, yeah, I could read the ebook. And I, and I do listen to the audiobook because I'll still buy the audiobook and listen to it, but I want to have this nice, beautiful, beautiful thing. Right?
Sasha Black [00:38:30]:
Yep. 100.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:38:32]:
All right, so let's. The last pre submitted thanks comes from a fellow Canadian author, uh, not too far from here where I am in Canada. Anjali Fawn says I'm thankful to the Superstars writing seminars for firstly awarding me the Eric Flint. He's one of the founders who's passed away. Eric Flint Scholarship in 2024 at exactly the right moment in my life that I needed it. Secondly, I'm incredibly grateful for the tribe of new friends and mentors I met in Colorado during that week. This auspicious occurrence gave me the bravery to complete my first novel and find confidence in helping others promote their work. Oh, I love that.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:39:12]:
I love. So she found her tribe, right? She found her people. She found her. You said found family. I love that term.
Sasha Black [00:39:19]:
That is genuinely what it feels like. It's such a supportive community of like minded people and yeah, I don't know, feels. And it's strange, isn't it? Because in that trope, like when you read that trope, there's, there's like an instant connection and it's like an acceptance for who that person is. And that's what I feel like this community is. It doesn't matter what you write. If you write, you are accepted. And that is just so magical.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:39:46]:
Oh man. No, I love that as well. And I love the openness that we have in the author community. For example, I saw this comment, I'm going to try and why is my screen not. Why is it not scrolling? My thing won't scroll. I can't control the screen. There it is. And it was.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:40:05]:
Matthew says, can I mention my YA superhero novella? So I love the fact that authors want to share and they want to be part of the community. And I bet you, Matthew, you're probably grateful that you know that you had this novel in you and you wrote it and you put it out there. And that's what Angelique talked about is I know Angelique. I know she worked for 30 years in the copywriting for television, like for writing ads for television shows here for a Canadian broadcaster as well. So she was writing sales copy basically for other people's products. So she was already endowed to be able to write sales copy really really well, because she did it professionally for decades and then. But she had never written a novel. She had only done short fiction, and she's a brilliant short fiction writer.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:40:54]:
So I love the fact. I love the fact that somebody can you probably get this with the Rebel Author podcast. You get. Listen. I know because I've heard comments, people who listen to your podcast and don't feel alone anymore because you're sharing with them on a regular basis.
Sasha Black [00:41:07]:
Yeah. And. Well, I have no filter.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:41:12]:
But that's. But that's something that is endearing to you. No, you do have a filter because you have not been naughty. You have not said naughty words during this broadcast. So you. You can apply that filter.
Sasha Black [00:41:23]:
Yeah, but I think I don't apply it on my own podcast.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:41:27]:
No, that. But that. But that's. That's authenticity that people are getting.
Sasha Black [00:41:31]:
Right, but that. But that's the bit. Right. Like, I feel like a lot of us are authentic in this community and that is why we connect so well.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:41:39]:
Yeah, yeah. No, that is absolutely amazing. So as we're getting close to the end. So, Sacha, what's we did? Never dug into one of your. One of your gratitudes.
Sasha Black [00:41:47]:
Oh, my goodness me. I'm so grateful for so. Well, I'm grateful to be here. I love that you asked me yesterday. I got to take Rachel McLean out for lunch and I was very, very grateful. She let me take her for lunch in order to pick her brains, and I took away a ton of ideas and stuff. So I'm very, very grateful to her today. I'm kind of full of excitement from that chat.
Sasha Black [00:42:09]:
So, yeah, I would say that is my gratitude today is to her.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:42:13]:
Oh, that's awesome. So I want to dig into that. So you wanted to take her up to lunch to pick her brain. So it was probably a frightening thing for you. Probably. You're like, oh, should I ask?
Sasha Black [00:42:24]:
Yeah. So this. It was. So basically it was our dear friend Joanna who said to me, if you want to be a seven figure author, then you should go and find out what seven figure authors are doing. So I was like, right, yeah, that's extremely sensible advice. So I spent my whole Vegas like. Well, actually prior to Vegas, you know.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:42:46]:
That'S why you never talked to me.
Sasha Black [00:42:48]:
Literally. I was back to back to back to back. Oh, stop it. No, I am. I was back to back to back because I had pre planned and I'd reached out to people asking if I could take them for coffee, take them for cocktails. I'm happy to buy them dinner, like in exchange for basically picking their brains. And someone did sort of say to me, oh, well, that's because you've got such a big network. And I was like, actually, I hadn't met three quarters of the people that I took out for dinner.
Sasha Black [00:43:14]:
I just reach out and asked and you know, I, you know, some were busy and some were not, and that's the way that it goes. But yeah, you just have to ask. But I'm very, very grateful to everybody who, who let me ply them with coffee, booze and dinner.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:43:30]:
But, but what I love about that, the lesson there is you didn't self edit, you didn't self reject, you reached out. And I know, I know you seem outgoing and we were talking about this before I introduced you when you were on stage on the Thursday. And again, you are like myself, potentially an omnivert. Right? You're.
Sasha Black [00:43:51]:
I am, I'm a, I'm a diehard introvert, but I play a very, very good extrovert game. And so here's the difference, right? I love the stage. I get a lot of energy by being on the stage, but the minute I come off the stage and I have to do the like one to one thing, it like sucks all the energy. I, I kind of think in an extroverted way. I think I love to bounce ideas and so I think that's why I can come across really extroverted. But certainly, like, if you ask me how I get my energy or where I get my energy from is by being alone, like, no questions. So. Yeah.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:44:24]:
Oh, man. Well, I am so glad, I am so glad you were willing to hang out with me today on a special American Thanksgiving episode. Sacha, I am again, so grateful for you as a friend. I'm so grateful for, for all the amazing things you do for the author community. And I'm grateful that you have put your love and passion into Ruby Roe and look at the lives you're changing and all those readers. So thank you on behalf of all your readers too.
Sasha Black [00:44:49]:
Oh, well, thank you. And thank you to Draft2Digital and to you and your amazing books for authors and your podcasts that I adore. And yeah, thank you for everything that you do.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:44:58]:
Awesome. It's just such a love fest. But again, so thank you, Sacha, for hanging out with me. Thank you guys for watching, for participating. We are running up to the 45 minute mark where we want to close the show out. Those of you from America watching this either today or watching this just after, hope your Thanksgiving is absolutely amazing. Hope that you've taken the time like Sacha does in that amazing book. She has to just share some gratitudes about the world.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:45:24]:
Now if you if you have not ever done self publishing before, you can take advantage of whoops. And that's the wrong one. Yes, start yourself publishing career over at Draft2Digital. You can always get insights over at D2D Tips Insights as as well there's a promotion form for authors. If you're publishing through ddd go to D2D Tips D2D Promotion Form. And yeah, amazing. Please make sure to like comment subscribe to our YouTube channel in particular. It helps us grow the community so we can bring in amazing guests like Sacha.
Mark Leslie Lefebvre [00:46:01]:
And be sure so you don't miss out our weekly SPI self publishing insiders live. Go to ddedlive.com and again you can sign up for a free account@draft2digital.com Sacha again, thanks for hanging out with me today and thank you guys for watching.
Kevin Tumlinson [00:46:18]:
Ebooks are great, but there's just something about having your words in print. Something you can hold in your hands, put on a shelf, sign for a reader. That's why we created D2D Print Print, a print on demand service that was built for you. We have free beautiful templates to give your book a pro look and we can even convert your ebook cover into a full wraparound cover for print. So many options for you and your books and you can get started right now@trap2digital.com that's it for this week's self published publishing insiders with Draft2Digital. Be sure to subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts and share the show with your will be author friends and start build and grow your own self publishing career right now at Draft2Digital.