If you've ever asked yourself, "How do successful indie authors do it?" -- Dale Roberts from Self Publishing with Dale is here to show you the publishing roadmap to success.
If you've ever asked yourself, "How do successful indie authors do it?" -- this is the episode for you. Joining us is none other than Dale Roberts, the charismatic host of the wildly popular Self Publishing with Dale Podcast and YouTube Channel (@dalelroberts and @selfpubwithdale). An accomplished indie author himself, Dale has made an art form out of teaching other authors how to self-publish successfully through his videos, podcasts and books. If that weren't enough, Dale is in the process of releasing an entire series of books--a roadmap--to guide authors along a successful publishing career.
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Kevin Tumlinson [00:00:01]:
You just tuned into the hippest way to start and grow your indie author career. Learn the ins, the outs, and all the all arounds of self publishing with the team from D2D and their industry influencing guests. You're listening to Self Publishing Insiders with Draft2Digital.
Jim Azevedo [00:00:25]:
We're live, Dale.
Dale Roberts [00:00:27]:
We're here. Yeah.
Jim Azevedo [00:00:29]:
We are here. Everybody, welcome to Self Publishing Insiders, where today, it is my privilege, honor. I'm so stoked to welcome my buddy, Dale l Roberts, to the show. Welcome, Dale.
Dale Roberts [00:00:43]:
Thank you so much, Jim. It's always a pleasure getting to chat with you. You and I are are are good buddies. Obviously, we get to we're blowing up each other's texts on a daily basis. So I I'm just tickled because remember, we were chatting about this, what, 1 year ago, and I do not exaggerate.
Jim Azevedo [00:00:59]:
Yeah.
Dale Roberts [00:00:59]:
What happened?
Jim Azevedo [00:01:01]:
Well, Dale and I were trying to keep each other in check, like, before we, you know, backstage in the green room, we're like, okay, let's not talk about this and let's not talk about that because we know we'll spend the next couple hours just going down this rabbit hole. Yeah. But what can I say about Dale Roberts? If you don't know Dale yet, you need to because Dale has earned a spot for himself as the trusted go to guy for the indie publishing community. You know, whether it's breaking news or product and service reviews, his thoughtful interviews and really deep dive assessments of service providers and tools for indies are truly unmatched. He's now got dozens and dozens of books published, 900 plus videos now, Dale. I was reading. I'm like, 900 videos? No wonder your videos are so good. He's got well over a 100,000 subscribers now across his channels and millions and millions of views.
Jim Azevedo [00:01:59]:
Simply, Dale is just this passionate, super positive, tireless advocate for indie authors everywhere. So we're gonna talk about all those things, but today, we're gonna put a special emphasis on Dale's brand new self publishing series of books, which is essentially a road map for indies to kind of guide you along the path of publishing from beginner to advanced and even beyond that. So, again, Dale, so glad that you're here.
Dale Roberts [00:02:29]:
Hey. Thank you so much. Right out the rip, I'm just gonna go ahead and correct you on something. It's 1600 1600 videos between 2 channels.
Jim Azevedo [00:02:37]:
Alright. I need an update.
Dale Roberts [00:02:40]:
No. That's not your fault. Like, there's just so much to to manage. The funny thing is there are some people that either discover my podcast or they discover my main channel, and they don't realize that there's one or the other, and sometimes they get confused. Big shout out to Tom McAuliffe. I think he was one of the the very first ones. They're like, where are you at? What are you doing? I don't know where you're supposed to be. So that's why I ended up separating those two channels and where it's the branding is Dale Roberts on the main channel and then the self publishing with Dale podcast, which to differentiate between the 2, Dale Roberts, high production, you know, high production value, very well produced videos, whereas with the podcast, it's more raw, kind of like what you and I are doing, where we're able to riff and just go a little bit off script.
Dale Roberts [00:03:25]:
That's that's just kind of a way that I love to connect with a lot of the indie authors and get a better pulse. It's so much fun. Like, I think you know, and people are watching right now in the live chat. Like, nothing beats having a live broadcast and being able to have this value exchange between yourself and the audience.
Jim Azevedo [00:03:43]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Tell me, what lights you up about India Publishing and about our community? Because you're always lit up.
Dale Roberts [00:03:55]:
There is so much that I have to be excited for. I think a lot of the reason why I get so excited is this is like my boyhood dream. It is my boyhood dream. Since I was a kid, I'd always wanted to be an author, but I was also very, independent as a kid. And even my mother reflects back, like, when I was a kid, I would, you know, try to write and publish my own books. Like, that was like I was doing indie publishing as as a kid. Heck, I even had some featured pieces in the local newspaper when I was in high school, and it got me some great attention, a lot of adoration. It was really cool.
Dale Roberts [00:04:33]:
Then I got into college and it just took the wind out of me. Like, I think, you know, everybody knows that college ain't easy. And, so I got babied going through all of school. And as soon as I got into college, it it really took my love out of it. So when I
Jim Azevedo [00:04:49]:
got put into that factory setting, like, you need to write this way and about these things.
Dale Roberts [00:04:54]:
Yep. I found out, like, really quick. I think it was like one of my very first papers that was due in my English class. And I think it was I think I literally failed. I just got this paper back and I handed it in with pride. I was like, oh, this is great. This is fantastic. And then I got this paper back, and I was like, oh, what? My writing's bad? And it just it was shocking to me.
Dale Roberts [00:05:19]:
I don't think it was I think it was just a lot of what I experienced as a kid. I thought that I was better than what I was.
Jim Azevedo [00:05:28]:
And I
Dale Roberts [00:05:28]:
think when I got into it, you know, being an adult and, of course, you know, about 10 years ago when I broke into this business, I was a lot more understanding. I was a lot more willing to hear that that criticism and that feedback because it's never easy sit hearing people say your work's not good. But if you can kind of take that feedback and try to apply to your writing and adjust from there, that's great. But, why I get so passionate about indie publishing is, you know, I I stumbled into this whole YouTube game just by accident. To be honest, I just did a couple of interviews. I got a little bit of attention. And then rather than spending a lot of times doing social media DMs and emails, my easiest solution was to produce videos. So that way, anytime someone asks something, I just send them to a video.
Jim Azevedo [00:06:16]:
Did you have a background in it before?
Dale Roberts [00:06:19]:
No, no, not. I did videos before, but I mean, who hasn't? It wasn't one of those things I took very seriously. And it wasn't until about a year into things that I really started drawing those parallels between self publishing books and self publishing videos that it hooked me. I love the process. And then Yeah. Part of that love came from the viewer feedback. A lot of viewers that were saying, hey. Because of you, I did x, y, z.
Dale Roberts [00:06:47]:
Because of you, I launched my book. Because of you, I sold 12 books per day as opposed to none. There are so many of these different testimonials that I get through viewer feedback that it's what makes me passionate. It's why sometimes when I receive breaking news, I drop everything I'm doing. I skip the gym, I jump right online, and I'm going live right away. You know, I love this business inside now. You're going to see a lot of YouTubers in this business. It's not to take anything away from them or to make them seem inferior, but some of them are just here for the paycheck.
Dale Roberts [00:07:23]:
For me, sure, the paycheck's great, but I love this business. I'm not going anywhere. I'm not gonna be chasing the next freaking, you know, crypto bro or, you know, any of these other, you know, business models. Indie Publishing to me is where my heart is and it will remain.
Jim Azevedo [00:07:40]:
Well, it it shows, Dale. I mean, we all we we all know that. You know, you mentioned your your passion for following the news and then helping to be a part of breaking news, and that's one of the things that blew me away with your videos right off the bat. It was like, how can you take news that literally broke literally minutes ago, digest it, get on the line with a couple of CEOs, ask super thoughtful questions, not just, like, reading from the press release, like, you're just on it. Yeah. Again, everybody out there who is watching this live or if you're gonna watch it in the future, the man is very detail oriented and does these deep dives.
Dale Roberts [00:08:21]:
It comes with a lots of lots of practices. As you you kind of mentioned, you know, with 900 videos on the main channel and over 631, the 600 that you see representative over on the podcast, I think, is where I've really cut my teeth and gotten to understand just a little bit better about how to better, and more effectively communicate, because viewers will tell you when you're off. Like, trust me. Like, you've probably seen some comments, I'm sure, here on Drafted Digital where you're like Happens.
Jim Azevedo [00:08:49]:
I don't know what you're talking about.
Dale Roberts [00:08:51]:
Right. Right. It's it's it's always perfect. Right? But it it's really helped me develop how I can speak, and and I'm I'm far from perfect. That's gonna be the thing is and this is where it's so applicable to authors as well is is just think about some of these lessons as an author and how you can apply that. Some of the negative criticism that you can get, what can you do that do with that in order to make yourself a better author? I think it this is a a good point for me to kind of point out, good friend of yours and mine, of course, here at Draft2Digital, Mark Leslie Lefebvre. What a legend, by the way. The man freaking founded Kobo Writing Life.
Dale Roberts [00:09:23]:
Get out of town. And now he is actively working as an adviser for Draft2Digital, and for good reason. He just freaking graduated college. Are what are you joking? Are you kidding me? He got a master's in creative writing with a specialty in publishing. I was like, you do realize that you've been doing this since the nineties. I think you should be teaching these classes, but I think it all just illustrates the fact that you should always be learning. And I this is a huge reason why Mark is just one of my he he is one of my top biggest heroes. I I love the man because he lives this business.
Dale Roberts [00:09:58]:
He breathes this business. He sleeps this business. Everything about it, it is the pure essence of Mark Leslie Lefebvre.
Jim Azevedo [00:10:04]:
And hopefully, his experience is dabbles in several different from bookselling to publishing and beyond.
Dale Roberts [00:10:10]:
He's so stinking good at it. So yeah. And even just to further illustrate, the man just graduates college. He gets married, and then he goes and relaunches a 20th edition, a 20th year anniversary edition of one of his books. And I'm just like, oh my gosh. Yeah. So, yeah, try to keep up with Mark Leslie a favor, everybody. Because if you could do that, I tell you what, you're on the right track.
Jim Azevedo [00:10:34]:
For sure. You started publishing back in 2014, self publishing. So a couple of questions out of this. Was traditional publishing ever in your head? It's like, no. Maybe I should pursue that route. And then, after you started publishing, at what point did you realize, like, hey. I can help other authors do this.
Dale Roberts [00:10:54]:
Yeah. Traditional publishing never ever crossed my mind because I was literally just holding a day job when the opportunity to write my own book came about. My corporate wellness coach had saw that I was very passionate about health and fitness. So she wanted she said, hey, why don't you write a book about it? And I was like, Yeah, I should. And of course, the inner kid in my head is ready to just, you know, go bonkers. Yeah. And so I ended up going and writing that with the only intent of just going to, like, a local print shop, having it printed off and just give it to friends and family. That literally was the end of of it.
Dale Roberts [00:11:28]:
And this is something I shared in my first book in this 8 part series was I approached my wife about getting this offset printing done, and it was about a $1200 ticket. And it was like that was the minimum I had to spend. And I remember thinking in my, like, delirious, like, just just just diluted mind that, oh, yeah, she'll be cool with $1200. That's all
Jim Azevedo [00:11:52]:
I heard.
Dale Roberts [00:11:53]:
No. Yeah. Yeah. So I had to look for alternatives, and that's when I had stumbled over the platform of CreateSpace. Rest in peace, CreateSpace. That was just a free way for me to distribute my books, and it was just icing on the cake that it ended up being, that it distributed to Amazon and all these different regions. So when I started seeing I was making money from these things, that's when my brain goes, oh, my gosh, I can make a living on this.
Jim Azevedo [00:12:21]:
Were you surprised by that that your book started selling?
Dale Roberts [00:12:23]:
I I was.
Jim Azevedo [00:12:23]:
You know, you're onto something.
Dale Roberts [00:12:25]:
I, you know, I think I was surprised, but I guess it shouldn't have surprised me much since I I there was primarily friends and family, but then there was just some organic sales. So I think knowing that there was organic sales involved, that was enough proof of concept. Like, hey. If I can just do this part time, what would it be like if I go full time into this? And I literally put my 30 day notice in with my my employers. I I loved my job, by the way. Just loved it to death. But as far as when I pivoted to information in the self publishing space, it was, like I said, all by accident. I did a couple of different YouTube interviews that ended up bringing in some attention.
Dale Roberts [00:13:04]:
They pretty much interviewed me about my first biggest best selling book and ultimate home workout Plan bundle. And, I was like, yeah. Sure. Let's go ahead and do it. I was just I was excited that someone was willing to interview me and get me to where I could promote my book. And, little did I know that it would bring in not necessarily fitness fans, but it brought in fans of self publishing, of wanting to know, like, hey. How did you do this? What was all the processes like?
Jim Azevedo [00:13:31]:
Yeah.
Dale Roberts [00:13:31]:
So it it was all by accident. Now in my mind, I'm thinking, oh, I'll get on YouTube, and I'm gonna be able to be the next PewDiePie because PewDiePie was a big thing at the time. Naturally, I found out really, really quick that was not the case, and it's taken me let's see here. We're on 8 years now, over 8 years of being on YouTube, and the main channel is getting ready to pass. I know it's already over 97,000 subscribers. So it's getting ready to hit that 100,000 subscriber milestone. Thank you so much. And I feel very fortunate in that I got that type of attention, and I got that type of leverage and platform.
Dale Roberts [00:14:11]:
So it's I'm forever thankful and forever grateful to folks like Draft2Digital because you guys have always been great ambassadors. Folks like Book Award Pro have, you know, been miblart cover design. They've all just been so great in just being ambassadors. I I should say, did we create? Darn it. If I'm gonna mention, you know, some folks that have been really, really good, and there's been so much more, but, having that, you know, those cheerleaders supporting me all the way has been instrumental in me continuing this little journey. Because I'm gonna tell you this that, there are days that it's challenging as a video content creator. It really is. You'll pour your heart and soul into a video title.
Dale Roberts [00:14:47]:
We've
Jim Azevedo [00:14:48]:
if I if you don't mind me mentioning, I remember there were a couple of times that we talked kinda offline. And for those of you who don't know, like, Dale is a perfectionist. And when something starts to go sideways, it it he feels it personally. It's
Dale Roberts [00:15:03]:
it can be tough. You know, and and this is this is let's putting aside, like, troll comments and things like that. Some days I'm good. Other days, I'm not. Like, I'm not I'm not, you know, inhuman. I am definitely I'm
Jim Azevedo [00:15:16]:
going to say, you
Dale Roberts [00:15:17]:
know, I've got emotions. They can be definitely hurt. Although it's always funny whenever someone just like nice bald head, I'm like, do you not realize that I've consciously chose this? Like, I have shaved it every like, what are you doing? But, you know, you you get sometimes those comments that cut real deep. Like, it it really is tough. And then Yeah. Again, you you pour your heart and soul into a video only for it to flop, or for that matter, having, like, egregious error. I've had some errors in my videos and some people have been very quick to point it out. One of them, gosh, was let's see here.
Dale Roberts [00:15:49]:
I was doing a live broadcast talking about Findaway Voices, I think it was. And rather than saying 50% for Spotify distribution, I said 80%. And, yeah, Will Davis, the head of Findaway Voices, got a hold of me. He's like, hey. Love your enthusiasm. It's great always, man. Oh, gosh. The video was great, but it's 50%, not 80%.
Dale Roberts [00:16:08]:
And I was like, literally, my brain goes to, like, you know, red alert. I'm just freaking out. I go to delist the video and I go and correct it. But by that time, like, the damage was done. They had already been, like, thousands of viewers within a couple of hours, and I had to upload it again and the video tanked. It was like, oh, no. Yeah.
Jim Azevedo [00:16:31]:
After all that work. Yeah.
Dale Roberts [00:16:32]:
So, yeah, perfectionism sometimes gets gets the best of me for sure.
Jim Azevedo [00:16:37]:
Yeah. Yeah. There's one thing that you mentioned that I wanna make sure everybody heard, and that is, you know, when you started saying yes to these interview requests and these YouTube requests. And even today, I think it was today or last night, you know, I was just kinda checking out your website, And you still you're like, hey. If you wanna talk to me online, if you wanna set up an interview, it you know, it doesn't matter. I'll talk to anybody. I'm open minded. You're just so accessible.
Jim Azevedo [00:17:02]:
Yeah. So, like, you know, it wasn't kinda like these things happen by chance. You've made yourself accessible and open to to other people.
Dale Roberts [00:17:11]:
I I try to lead by example in so many regards, but please understand, folks, that I am human and I will make mistakes. But one of the things I always say is the important part about marketing and promoting your books is about being visible. Be as visible as possible. Now if you happen to be someone who wants to be anonymous, you just have to be a little bit more creative with how you become more visible. But being visible is super easy for me. I've already got the setup. I've got the camera. I've got the microphone.
Dale Roberts [00:17:38]:
I've got the Internet access. Everything's good to go. I can see about doing interviews for audio podcasts and video podcasts because it's a great way for me to sit here and turn around and go, hey. Have you checked out my latest book, Self Publishing for New Authors? Book 1 of the 8 part series. And second part just came out today called Advanced Self Publishing for authors. Unfortunately, I don't have a hard copy in front of me at the moment, but this is one of the best ways to become more visible. And so this is why I am accessible as I am. I think I've done up till about the last month, I've done nearly a dozen different interviews.
Dale Roberts [00:18:12]:
I'm getting anywhere and I'm getting everywhere. It's like I don't I am not going to turn down any opportunity, whether a person has 1 viewer or someone has 1,000,000 viewers. I'm going to get there because to me, I think that every last bit of exposure helps to kind of get me in front of the right people. So that way people are able to buy my books. But it's not going to be perfect. It's just just be prepared because if you've never been on camera, don't expect to get on and be like, Oh, I'm going to be just like Dale. And you show up, you're like, what I do with my hands, you know.
Jim Azevedo [00:18:48]:
That's how you learn. You have to just you have to jump in and suck for a while, and embrace what's embrace? Let's not embrace the challenge. It's you're not gonna be perfect the first time, but that's how you learn. And over time, you'll get more and more comfortable. And then one day, you'll surprise yourself because you'll find yourself instead of being afraid for that next YouTube opportunity or that next speaking gig, you'll find yourself looking forward to it. Yeah. That's what happens. It happens naturally.
Jim Azevedo [00:19:16]:
Before I forget, though, I want to go back a bit. That first book that you published, and it's gonna cost you $1200 to, you know, to to print physical copies of that book at your local print shop. Yeah. Now you were all excited. This is your this is your baby. I'm gonna put it out in the world. I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get this book out. And your wife's like, hey.
Jim Azevedo [00:19:37]:
Hold on a second. I wanna stop there for a minute because I've noticed through, you know, my years at Draft2Digital and, you know, my life at Smashwords prior to Draft2Digital, what I've seen oftentimes is that, especially for the newer authors, there is such an intoxication when it comes to getting that first book out or those first books out. And I've seen too many authors fall in that trap of, I'll just I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get that book out, even if it's paying 1,000 of dollars to some vanity press out there.
Dale Roberts [00:20:09]:
Oh, yeah.
Jim Azevedo [00:20:11]:
Do you have any cautionary tales? Can you talk about that a little bit? Because I think that'd be a perfect segue into, you know, talking about the first book
Dale Roberts [00:20:19]:
Yeah.
Jim Azevedo [00:20:19]:
And the pragmatic road map that you have and and and throughout the entire series, but starting with book 1.
Dale Roberts [00:20:26]:
I I think the most important lesson that any new author needs to realize is do not rush getting into the business. Now, if you become a bit more experienced and you've launched some books, you can, you know, rush it as much as you want to because you're going to know you have the expectations and you will know exactly how it turns out. But for anybody that's new, take your time, do your research. I actually had a very great comment on my channel that I've been holding off for the, like, the last couple of days to answer because I feel like it deserves a full video. But it's a new author. This person that just published their book, they are overwhelmed. They're like, I gotta do keywords and newsletter swaps, and and then I have to do QR codes in the back of my book. And and I have to do this, and I have to do that.
Dale Roberts [00:21:12]:
And sometimes I'm just like, okay. Slow down. Slow down. If you're already a new author and you've already got your book out, pause, relax for just a moment. Just realize. And this is something I always remind myself, and it's it seems very hyperbolic when I say it, but it's so important for everybody to understand this. And I'll give you a little bit of context because I think everybody can relate to this certain situation here is if no one's going to die, I think you're going to be good. If no one's going to be hurt, I think you're going to be good.
Dale Roberts [00:21:43]:
Just know that there is no perfect book launch. There is no perfect marketing and promotional plan. There is no one size fits all type situation for everybody's different books. So that's why it's so important you pump the brakes, take it slow, investigate things, and especially when it comes to parting ways with your money. Jim mentioned vanity presses like I am 1000% against vanity presses. I am just vehemently against them because the fact that they are just in the business for taking your money. They're not in the business for getting your book in front of more people. They're not in the business.
Dale Roberts [00:22:22]:
Yeah. They're all about earning your money. That's it. Now we could probably go down this whole path of vanity presses, but what I'd recommend is go to authorbeware.org and Right. To write or excuse me. Yes. Thank you so much. Go over to writer beware.
Dale Roberts [00:22:37]:
Victoria Strauss has so many great articles about vanity press is that's going to absolutely just curl your your nostrils, you know, a little bit. You're like, oh, good Lord. Yeah. Vanity Presses are ugly, but take your time if you're going to invest it. Now here's the nice thing is I published a book and I've published many books since that didn't cost me a single dime. Didn't cost me a dime. Now is this a 100% possible for everybody? Absolutely. Is it going to be perfect upon launch? Probably not.
Dale Roberts [00:23:05]:
I mean, my first book was Bowling Shoe Ugly. It was nasty. Like, my mom, like, literally, I was like, hey. Can you hang this up on your fridge? And she's like, hey. Yeah.
Jim Azevedo [00:23:13]:
Those were hip. Those were those were hip in the early aughts. I just
Dale Roberts [00:23:17]:
Yeah. There you go. For sure. But, so let me go ahead and relate just a point here. And I think it was so great you and I were just kinda chatting today. Today is the 2nd, book launch of my 8 part series, self publishing with Dale, and I gotta tell you that it has turned into a train wreck today. There have been some things that should have been completed a lot sooner, but I had already had the date set. And then rather than saying, let's go ahead and postpone things, I went ahead and pushed forward.
Dale Roberts [00:23:45]:
Because, 1, nobody's gonna die. Okay? And 2, I've got some of done. You know? The whole thing is about showing up. So with that being said, there were, the interior formatting for the print cover wasn't done, for the print edition wasn't done. And it should be done within the next day, but, unfortunately, that means that it's gonna be delayed so much more that I will get the print book out as soon as I'd like. Audiobook is still further down on the road map. It's not one of my top priorities. My top priority was ebook, print book.
Dale Roberts [00:24:17]:
So it was, like, literally 0 hour last night when I got the ebook version. At least got that launch because I knew I was coming into this interview today. And again, it's not the perfect launch. That's why I say sometimes, yeah, you can watch and follow along with me, but just understand that I'm gonna make mistakes from time to time. I will make mistakes. I promise you the same is going to go with you. Just be okay with it. Remember, though, later on down the line, any lesson that you were able to derive from this.
Dale Roberts [00:24:44]:
So for me, I think it's just understanding, like, where is my launch schedule and what are gonna be the necessary actions to make sure that I have enough runway that all of these things are gonna be ready to go within the next month, which, fingers crossed, we should be set for the next, you know, book launch, which will be for advertising for books where I talk about Amazon advertising. But I felt like, yeah, you weren't looking for that answer, but I wanted to kind of give something a bit more broadly encompassing and let everybody know just because you see a guy on YouTube doesn't mean that he has all things together.
Jim Azevedo [00:25:20]:
Yeah. Dale, you're just you're kind of you're underscoring, a through line that's Yeah. No one's noticed. You've you're underscoring a through line that began at the very beginning of this chat, and that is imperfection is okay. Things are going to happen. Plan for Murphy's Law because it's going to rear its its ugly head. Gotcha. And sometimes perfect isn't.
Jim Azevedo [00:25:42]:
I mean, you don't wanna kind of push out the the humanness of your work and your words and what you're trying to gift to the world out there.
Dale Roberts [00:25:53]:
Yeah. I I do the best that I can, and that's really about all I expect of any other author out there is do the best that you can.
Jim Azevedo [00:26:00]:
And do the best that you can. And if it's not perfect, let it go. It's gonna be okay, everybody.
Dale Roberts [00:26:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.
Jim Azevedo [00:26:08]:
Oh, alright. Well, when you're thinking about these books and this new series, you know, we already talked about there's a lot of information out there for self publishing. So when you began thinking about the series out there, what was the gap that you felt like, you know what? I need to I need to take the reins on this because something's missing here, and I'm the guy to fix it. I think that you are. So what did you see out there that was missing?
Dale Roberts [00:26:34]:
To to me, I think it's it's easy to find this out because of the number of followers that I have through social media and through YouTube. So, I I can't say necessarily that I can't take all the credit for that. It's because people are really literally just handing me, like, things. Like, for instance, in Discord, yesterday, I pulled my entire, you know, what, 1000 nearly 1000 authors over there about future videos that I want to kinda cover. And they're able to kind of sort out what they like and what they don't like. And I'm paying really, really close attention because there are sometimes I believe that authors wanna learn about something and they don't. Prime example, my first three books in the Amazon Self Publisher series. The first one was Amazon Keywords for Books.
Dale Roberts [00:27:19]:
One of my best performing books of all time. Love the book. It's just it's my baby. The second book was Promotional Strategies for Books, and the third one was Amazon Reviews for Books. Now here's the funny thing. I truly believed that the market wanted to see and learn more about marketing and promoting their book with various strategies. That is the worst performing book of the series. That's not to say that it's just horrible by any stretch.
Dale Roberts [00:27:45]:
It's a great read. I'm very proud of it, but unfortunately, it just did not resonate with the audience. Now full disclosure going into 2025, that entire series is going to get a second edition and a whole new rework. And I think one of the things is changing out the title and the cover. So that way it's a bit more suitable and it is more enticing. And I think that's probably where I missed the mark. And so that's where it's, you know, understanding your market and working towards that direction. So I think there's some fiction authors that might be watching this right now and saying, okay, what does this do for me, Dale? I don't understand.
Dale Roberts [00:28:22]:
Like, how do I know? Literally, all you gotta do is ask your audience. Now if you don't have an audience and you're brand new to things, one of the greatest ways to do it is look up anybody that's within your niche on YouTube. Go over to any reviews on Goodreads, Amazon, Kobo, any number of those different things. Pay attention to the reviews because they're going to tell you what they like and what they dislike. The like things, you need to remember to continue to shine a spotlight on those type of things. But the things that were disliked, that right there is an area of opportunity that you need to absolutely attack. And so that's where I've just kind of discovered that gap in the market is going through pulling my audience. Also, the audience that I'm not currently serving, the ones that are, say, for instance, reading David Gogren's books or Joanna Penn's books or Mark Leslie Lefebvre's books.
Dale Roberts [00:29:15]:
I'm really trying to pay attention because I'm going to learn what they like, what they dislike, and then try to fill that gap. And so that's one of the things why I ended up, you know, working on this entire 8 part series is that I was trying to identify gaps in the market. And, you know, the next book coming up is, you know, gonna be about Amazon advertising. And, sure, there's a number of books out there, but I did notice with some of the lower reviews where I'm like, oh. So I need to cover this, this, this, and this, and this is what they were missing from here. And I'm already doing x, y, and z, so we are good to go. So the same is gonna work for fiction authors. Still looking? Study that market.
Dale Roberts [00:29:53]:
I know you're probably sitting there thinking to yourself that you've gotta sacrifice your muse. No. You don't. Absolutely. You don't need to do it. But it will challenge you in a new way that might even be able to enhance that muse that's within you if you really pay attention to your readers. Now if you've got an email list, there you go. You're you're you're gold.
Dale Roberts [00:30:12]:
All you gotta do is just talk to them. That's literally what email lists are about, is building that direct relationship with your readers. And if you're not currently doing an email list, I highly recommend. If there's any one piece of marketing advice that I wanna give to everybody out there is build an email list.
Jim Azevedo [00:30:29]:
Yep.
Dale Roberts [00:30:29]:
So it's so, so critical to the lifeblood of Our
Jim Azevedo [00:30:33]:
viewers are probably getting sick of us saying that week in and week out, but that's how important it is.
Dale Roberts [00:30:37]:
It truly is. It absolutely it's a game changer. It's a you know, I I can't say enough about email marketing. And I think that there's a lot of overwhelm sometimes with people is they're kind of like, Oh, I don't know what to say. I don't know what services I need to do. I don't need I don't know how many times do it per month. Just treat your email list like a conversation like Jim and I would have. If I'm excited about something, I share it with Jim.
Dale Roberts [00:31:00]:
I'll be like, hey. Oh, dude. You gotta check out this video. Oh my gosh. You gotta check out this latest song. I just all the time. Yeah. I do.
Dale Roberts [00:31:08]:
I do. That's gonna be a thing
Jim Azevedo [00:31:09]:
that you just appreciate it though.
Dale Roberts [00:31:11]:
Treat it like a relationship with this person. And if you don't know what to say, then you got to still have something to say right there. Like, it doesn't need to be perfect. All you gotta do is, hey. I don't know what to say lately. What are some things that you could probably expect for me to send out into this newsletter? I always recommend communicate with them on a monthly basis or if, you know, at least a monthly basis. I go for at least once or twice per week, but I've set those expectations with my subscribers.
Jim Azevedo [00:31:36]:
I think your your advice on reviews is is kinda counterintuitive to check out those negative reviews and because I think we all kinda have this you know, we don't no. I don't wanna look at that.
Dale Roberts [00:31:45]:
Yeah.
Jim Azevedo [00:31:46]:
But it's so eye opening. And your advice that you even check out the reviews of other authors in your genre, I think that's super like, I hadn't heard I've heard about, like, pay attention to your negative reviews because sometimes you're gonna find nuggets of wisdom in there. I haven't really heard anybody say no, but you also check out others in your in your genre. That's excellent advice.
Dale Roberts [00:32:05]:
You know, there there's a great tool out there. Actually, 2 good tools in my opinion. Obviously, Publisher Rocket's fantastic for doing market research. It does come at a higher premium these days, but it's so worth it if you have the discretionary expense. And the other tool that I've just stumbled over in the last year is called Dibley Create. Dibley Create actually has a a market analysis tool that will scrape all the reviews and provide you all the strengths and weaknesses that you're able to build off of and relevant keywords. Yeah. So having those things and it is really cool when you get those relevant keywords, you can pump it into something like Rocket, look for proof of concept through there, and then you're able to kind of go.
Dale Roberts [00:32:45]:
It's really kind of just revolutionized my full workflow. But yeah, I really love Dible Create for that reason. By the way, they're not paying me to say this, nor are they paying Draft2Digital on anything like this. I just I personally use this for the market research, especially with my latest publications that I'm going in and just really starting to study strengths and weaknesses. But if for some reason you don't have the discretionary expense to getting into those tools, that's totally fine. I've given you at least the basic old school way of doing things.
Jim Azevedo [00:33:12]:
Appreciate that. Yeah. Maybe we'll have them on the show one of these days.
Dale Roberts [00:33:16]:
So great.
Jim Azevedo [00:33:17]:
With your book series, you know, stop publishing for new authors is the the first book in the series. It's very pragmatic. You walk authors through, like, here are the things you need to do to get that that first book out there. Book number 2 released today. Right? Was it yesterday or it's today, isn't it?
Dale Roberts [00:33:34]:
It is officially today. Yeah. You are the this is like this is launch party, buddy. I didn't know. Did you bring any tacos and ice cream?
Jim Azevedo [00:33:40]:
Always have tacos and ice cream.
Dale Roberts [00:33:42]:
Absolutely. Me too. So, hopefully, everybody else brought some as long. Otherwise, you know, you just have to pretend it's up here.
Jim Azevedo [00:33:49]:
So book 2 is an advanced book marketing I'm sorry. Advanced self publishing for authors, and it kind of it takes everything that you present in book 1 and just cranks it up several notches.
Dale Roberts [00:33:59]:
Yeah. I, the funny thing is book 1 and 2 were originally one book altogether.
Jim Azevedo [00:34:05]:
Oh, really?
Dale Roberts [00:34:06]:
Then I realized it was just too dense for a nonfiction
Jim Azevedo [00:34:10]:
book.
Dale Roberts [00:34:10]:
I was going to lose a lot of people. So that's why I had to kind of separate. So you will notice that advanced self publishing for authors is, I would say, about 20% shorter than the self publishing for new authors. And it was because they used to be squished together. But I think I was partway through National Novel Writing Month in 2021 when I was writing those 2. I was literally like writing a full stinking novel and it was like partway through that I'm like, Oh, boy, this is too much. If a new author would open this up, they're going to be so overwhelmed. There's way too much.
Dale Roberts [00:34:47]:
I need to kind of just separate the 2. So that way they know when I'm done with book 1, I can move move to book 2 rather than being stuck on book 1 like you're reading Dune or War and Peace. You know, it's just gonna take forever for you to get through it. You don't want that, and I don't want that. I wanna make sure that I'm setting up new authors for success. And then we've got established authors as well that are like, you know, I really don't need the new author stuff, but I definitely wanna hear the more advanced tactics to growing my author businesses. So that's why it ended up being separated into the 2 different things. It's it's a little bit more, detailed because I keep it very basic, you know, over in the first book.
Dale Roberts [00:35:26]:
2nd book, it's way more advanced. And if you don't have at least that basic understanding, that foundational elements that I teach within the book 1, Book 2 is going to be like speaking gibberish to you because I I think, you know, when you probably came into this business that it's it's overwhelming. All the different, you know
Jim Azevedo [00:35:43]:
I came from the tech industry into publishing, and I was like, go. And then Yeah.
Dale Roberts [00:35:47]:
Well, where do
Jim Azevedo [00:35:47]:
I go? How do I learn about this? What do I do?
Dale Roberts [00:35:49]:
And the terminologies, the the the how we treat things, you know, where we distribute to, you know, what's a retailer versus a distributor, like,
Jim Azevedo [00:35:59]:
all those things. I'll tell you I'll tell you what. It's like it totally is. It was terrifying, but at the same time, wonderful.
Dale Roberts [00:36:06]:
And
Jim Azevedo [00:36:06]:
what I mean by that is when you enter the community, it it's at first, it's like, oh my god. There's so much, and information's coming at you through a fire hose. But then you start to learn, like, these people are really cool. Like, there's so many people out there who are just dying to help you, and they'll walk you through it. And I think that that's what you what you did here with these books. I mean Yeah. Just, you know, kinda reading through the first book and looking through the contents of the second book. It's like you're presenting to authors, I think, exactly what you need as you if you're a newer author because you're laying it out in a road map, do this thing first, and then you're gonna do this thing first, and then you're gonna do this thing for next.
Jim Azevedo [00:36:50]:
And then, voila, you've got a published book. And then the next book is, okay. Now you've got a published book. Here's how we're going to expand your readership.
Dale Roberts [00:36:59]:
Yep. That's that's exactly how how the series is going, and it's going to continue building on some of those things. But the cool thing is each one of the books can be standalone. You know, you can you can pick them out a la carte. So come this time next year, you're gonna see a an entire series that's gonna have about a dozen different publications. And you can duck in and out anytime that you want to if you're already experienced in the business. So for instance, let's just say you're not a new author. Maybe you're like, hey, Dale, book 1.
Dale Roberts [00:37:28]:
That's not my thing. Amazon advertising, though, I've been really struggling, so I'm gonna go ahead and get that. By the way, shameless plug that's coming out September 15th. You know, there there is what I'm sorry.
Jim Azevedo [00:37:40]:
I said, well, edit it out. I'm totally kidding.
Dale Roberts [00:37:42]:
Well, yeah, we'll cut it out. We'll cut it out. Yes.
Jim Azevedo [00:37:44]:
Like anything you want.
Dale Roberts [00:37:45]:
But, yeah, it's I want to get it to where any author can be able to duck in and out. Selfishly, I wrote the very first book as a kind of a love letter to myself from 10 years ago, where I was just struggling, and I really needed that direction. And unfortunately, I came into the business about the time that there were a ton of grifters, and I learned some bad things along the way. And some things that got me into trouble, and I've actually chronicled this over my YouTube channel before where I did stupid things for my business. And it's stuff that to this day haunts me, And I'm not very proud of things from doing the the illicit, you know, review swaps that I was not okay. I was so, hey, it's fine. Oh, yeah. It's it's it says it's against terms and conditions.
Dale Roberts [00:38:31]:
Just ignore that. Like, no, terms and conditions aren't something you should be ignoring. Yeah. And I found out real quick the hard way. But, you know, it was essentially like me writing this letter to myself in the past and saying, okay, this is how you avoid these mistakes. These are the things that you should be doing. This is how you're keeping your business safe, things like that. Because I think you and I, we've had a good, you know, personal conversation as well as, you know, the CEO of, of, Draft2Digital, Chris Austin.
Dale Roberts [00:38:58]:
We've actually had some some chats about terms and conditions, stuff that just, you know I'm always afraid of step stepping a foul of that because people are watching. And because people are watching, they're gonna follow my lead, and I don't want to lead them off a cliff. I'm not the Pied Piper here, folks. So I'm always very cognizant of that. So that's where new authors came in. And as we start to build out this series, I think a lot more people are gonna be able to see, okay, Dale's not putting his information behind a giant $2,000 paywall or $897 course or anything else like that.
Jim Azevedo [00:39:30]:
Right. We would pay out that, Dale.
Dale Roberts [00:39:32]:
Yeah. I'm literally just putting this stuff out as accessible as possible. And here's the funny thing. Even if you don't have money. Right, even if you don't have money to get my books, the really cool thing is I'm distributing it through libraries by way of Draft2Digital. Yeah. You see? I got you on that one there.
Jim Azevedo [00:39:48]:
So Alright. Alright.
Dale Roberts [00:39:49]:
Draft2Digital. You can get into the library systems. There's so many ways. Do not miss out on the opportunity for hitting library systems. Now if for some reason you are very romantic and you're in love with KDP Select, go for it. I I understand. This totally makes sense. That's fine.
Dale Roberts [00:40:04]:
But if you find that's not treating you as well as it should be, might I recommend that you go ahead and consider going to library distribution system? Because I will tell you that I still even though I have the discretionary expense to go out and buy everybody's books, I still go to libraries because it's just where my heart is. I I always love libraries. Now here's the cool thing. If your if your book smokes like, I love it and such, I'm just gonna go buy it. But usually, libraries are a great way to do it. So that doesn't cost a dime. So that's why I'm trying to make everything as accessible as possible. And I don't know if I've discussed this with you.
Dale Roberts [00:40:37]:
Of course, I mentioned that I had, I'm doing audiobooks little later later down the line here.
Jim Azevedo [00:40:42]:
That you're gonna do that later.
Dale Roberts [00:40:44]:
The reason why it's taking a little longer is I'm actually producing each of these books into a full video course that people can be able to purchase and watch at their leisure. So if someone doesn't want to read the book via, you know, ebook or print book, they have the video course. They can walk them through and they can even put it in 2 x if they wanted to. Same thing could probably be said about the audiobooks, but audiobooks are not my strong suit, and I know I'm gonna have to hire a sound engineer to mix and master all of my stuff. So I'm kinda dragging my feet to be true
Jim Azevedo [00:41:13]:
for you guys.
Dale Roberts [00:41:14]:
Yeah. The video course, I think, is gonna be the next up because to me, I I mean, it's what I do 247. In fact, as soon as I get off, I'm actually gonna produce another video from the first series.
Jim Azevedo [00:41:25]:
Of course. Sure.
Dale Roberts [00:41:26]:
Can't wait to go ahead and yeah. It's it's already recorded. I just have to sit down and do all the editing and postproduction.
Jim Azevedo [00:41:32]:
Cool. I'm gonna bring up some comments and questions. Ready for some?
Dale Roberts [00:41:35]:
Yeah. Please. Let's do it.
Jim Azevedo [00:41:36]:
Let's do it. First one here is from Leila Rose. Hi, Leila. Thanks for your question. She asks, Dale, are there particular milestones any author should work toward early in their career, or is that totally different from author to author?
Dale Roberts [00:41:51]:
You nailed it. It's different from author to author because, I never want to make anybody feel bad about what is in their heart, what their goals are for their business. So let's walk back to my original story of when I went to go and publish my book. I was merely doing it for hobby sake. Like, I literally had no expectations. And if I continue to do it as a hobby to this day, I don't think anybody should, you know, make me feel terrible for that because I don't want to take it as serious as anybody else. If you are that type of author that want to do this just as a hobby and you aren't looking to make a living from it, you're just scratching that creative itch, you just wanna get your book out in the world, do that. That milestone might be just as simple as me publishing this book or me, getting one sale of this or 1,000 sales.
Dale Roberts [00:42:43]:
So I think for you, Leila, is, what resonates in your heart? And I'm asking this because I want an actual answer from you. I'm watching the chat here. Leila, what makes the most difference to you as an author and everybody else? Please answer this. What is your major milestone? What is the thing that you want to cross? What are some of the milestones along the way to that major milestone? It's, you know, I know there's some people that are very reluctant to set goals, but it can be very beneficial And you don't need to be shooting like crazy things like, I'm going to make a $1,000,000 sales in my 1st year. Okay. Could we just, like, start out with, like, your first dollar? And then we'll work up to that first 100, the first 1,000. Now for me, when I got into the business, my first milestone was consistently earning $1,000 per month in revenue. That was my first big milestone.
Dale Roberts [00:43:34]:
I believe that that's a good metric for anybody else because that's a good part time living right there. If you're making about a grand per month and in some areas of the world, $1,000 is going to stretch a long way. So just think about that. Just figure out what your goals are. And I definitely I'm paying attention to chat. Please, folks, load us up. I wanna hear what your goals are. What is your major milestone? Because, again, it varies from author author.
Dale Roberts [00:43:55]:
Great question, Leila.
Jim Azevedo [00:43:57]:
Absolutely. And this isn't a question, related to that, but FriendlyOne asks, will you have a written list of other sources you mentioned as an addendum to this podcast? Yes. We will. Once the podcast is complete, we'll go back through and put links to some of the things, like Dibley create that that Dale mentioned so that you guys, you know, don't have to go searching for that stuff. We'll put it in the show notes and comments later on. Let's see.
Dale Roberts [00:44:22]:
I need to hit up Dibley create, man. They need to see about paying us for the spot. Right. Yeah. Just joking, folks. Just joking. I'm not gonna do that to them.
Jim Azevedo [00:44:32]:
Hey, opportunities. Question, Dale.
Dale Roberts [00:44:35]:
Angela, how are you doing, Angela?
Jim Azevedo [00:44:36]:
It's great to see you. You're boundless energy. We want it.
Dale Roberts [00:44:43]:
ADHD is not even a joke. I didn't realize I had ADHD till I was an adult. Man, it was back in 2008. I had suffered a really bad injury in wrestling, and it shelved me and it put me into just a spiraling depression. And I had a lot of issues, and then I ended up going and seeing a doctor about it. And they diagnosed me with ADHD and they're like, Hey, here's some pills. And I'm like, can I pass on those things? Is there any alternative so we can do that? So, this boundless energy comes from that.
Dale Roberts [00:45:15]:
I think that genetics plays a large part in it. But if you have ADHD out there, you suspect that you do. What I would recommend is understand that you're not alone. Look for those ways that you can be able to cope. For me, ADHD is a is a is a sword. You know, it's a double edged sword, if you will. It can be great, but it can also be bad. Again, as I kinda said, you know, my whole thing of, you know, is is this is anybody gonna die from it? That's typically how it just reframes my my brain so that way I'm not freaking out as much because I have just this, you know, knack for blowing everything out of proportion way too much.
Jim Azevedo [00:45:52]:
You get really down on yourself like, oh, it's me.
Dale Roberts [00:45:55]:
Absolutely. It swings from one end to the next. So a lot of my systems and processes include, I have 2 separate lists that I answer to every single day. I've got my written list that I put everything I need to do throughout the course of the day, and then I have my actual digital list. So that way, it's always with me and it's keeping me accountable. I write all of my goals for the next day, the night before I close-up my office. It is an absolute must. I have to do that.
Dale Roberts [00:46:21]:
But as far as getting that energy and such, I'm very fortunate. No caffeine. A lot of people are like, oh, I even had a few people that were like, oh, Dale, you I'm like, no. Never done it. Never will. I honestly caffeine was something I cut out. Gosh. It's probably been 4 or 5 years now because, I had got diagnosed with arthritis in my neck, and I knew that caffeine worked as an inflammatory agent.
Dale Roberts [00:46:46]:
So I was like, it's not that important to me. I need to go ahead and cut that out. But that's that's really it. And then also doing what you love. Like, how I but it's it's it's that same feeling that I get, you know, on Christmas morning and seeing all my gifts. Like, I get up and I just try to attack the day with the same enthusiasm because every single day is and I sound like I'm going into a self help speech here. Every single day is is the present for good reason. You know, just you you gotta live your truth.
Dale Roberts [00:47:12]:
You got to really attack the things that you enjoy and and then filter out all the other stuff, all the other noise. I hear so much negativity online and such. If you see something negative online, go away from it. You know, it's just have it repel. Don't don't bring that into your life, and you'll find you're gonna have boundless energy yourself. Maybe on the same level as me, maybe not. Just don't try to compare yourself to other people. Just try to compare yourself from one day to the next.
Jim Azevedo [00:47:38]:
That's beautiful. I was gonna ask you, can you leave the our viewers with one piece of advice? And you just did that without me without me even asking.
Dale Roberts [00:47:46]:
So let the let
Jim Azevedo [00:47:47]:
the small let the small stuff go. I just wanna remind folks where they could find you online. If you haven't seen any of Dale's videos, do yourselves a favor, and I mean that with complete sincerity. Go to Dale's YouTube channels at Dale l roberts and at self pub with Dale. Also, if you're interested in getting Dale's latest books,
Dale Roberts [00:48:13]:
there are
Jim Azevedo [00:48:13]:
a couple of links for you to check out. Dalelinks.com/newauthors. That's there it is. Self publishing for new authors. There is a link where you could find that book. And then book 2, out today. The the full title is advanced self publishing for authors, and you could get it right there. I have to go through the obligatory end of YouTube stuff, Dale, as you know, because you're the pro at all of this stuff.
Jim Azevedo [00:48:43]:
But I just wanted to quickly remind people that if you don't mind, if you could like, share, comment, and subscribe to Self Publishing Insiders. It helps us expand our reach out there and bring in awesome guests like Dale to share their expertise with all of you. If you wanna see what our episodes are going to be about, the topics, and the guests for next week and the week after that, Be sure to bookmark at d2dlive.com for that. And if you are new to self publishing, or even if you've been traditionally published, and you're dipping your toes into the self publishing waters for the first time, do yourself a favor. Go to draft2digital.com and sign up for a free account. Everybody, thank you so very, very much for joining us week in week out. Dale, finally, we made it happen. How do you feel?
Dale Roberts [00:49:39]:
I feel good. I feel like it finally came full circle. We literally were talking about this a year ago because I was planning on releasing it at that time, but now that we've done it, it feels good. How about you?
Jim Azevedo [00:49:50]:
It feels good. I'm glad that we finally did it, and let's not make it another year. Let's let's make this a regular occurrence. You know that you've got an open invitation to visit us anytime.
Dale Roberts [00:50:00]:
Well, thank you so much. I really do appreciate it, Jim. Sincerely. Time went by so fast.
Jim Azevedo [00:50:05]:
It it really did. It really did. And to everybody else out there, thanks again for joining us and spending a part of your day with us. Dale, I'll see you back in the green room for our tacos and ice cream. Everybody else, we'll see you next week. I'm gonna leave you with a quick 30 second spot for D2D print. Bye, everybody, and thanks again.
Kevin Tumlinson [00:50:26]:
Ebooks are great, but there's just something about having your words in print. Something you can hold in your hands, put on a shelf, sign for a reader. That's why we created D2D Print, a print on demand service that was built for you. We have free beautiful templates to give your book a pro look, and we can even convert your ebook cover into a full wraparound cover for print. So many options for you and your books. And you can get started right now at draft2digital.com. That's it for this week's self publishing insiders with Draft2Digital. Be sure to subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts and share the show with your will be author friends, and start, build, and grow your own self publishing career right now at draft2digital.com.